Wei Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A93-L5
魏京生基金会新闻与文章发布号：A93-L5
Release Date: December 12, 2004
发布日：2004年12月12日
Topic: Workers Leaders Wei Jingsheng and George Becker Talk of the Workers' Movement in China (Voice of America)
标题：美中工运领袖谈中国工运(美国之音)
Original Language Version: Chinese (Chinese version at the end)
此号以中文为准（英文在前，中文在后）
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Workers Leaders Wei Jingsheng and George Becker Talk of the Workers' Movement in China
-- reported by YanQing, Voice of America, December 11, 2004
In the past year, protests and demonstrations held by Chinese workers and peasants have increased tremendously. This increase has not only received the attention in various social groups within China, but also has attracted the close attention of the world.
George Becker started work in a steel factory when he was 15. He has been a steel worker all his life. In 1993 and 1997, he was elected International President of the United Steelworkers of America, which represents 750,000 workers. Currently, he is a committee member in the United States - China Economic and Security Review Commission. Mr. Becker expressed his deep sympathy and support for the current condition and struggle Chinese workers have to face.
* On defending themselves by collective negotiation *
Mr. Becker said: "I have learned from various documents and newspapers that the Chinese workers are simultaneously organizing to protest. The protests have been getting more and more frequent, and the strikes have been getting more and more frequent. Chinese workers are putting more effort in making themselves a social class that will receive recognition as well as fair treatment.”
Mr. Becker pointed out that to truly protect their own interests, the workers must organize together to create collective bargaining.
He said: "I have led workers' strikes and organized protests in the past when we felt unfair treatment. We challenged the companies and we challenged the government. What the Chinese workers are trying is what I did. However, because we are in a democratic system, those of us who protested were not arrested and detained. However, all the reports and materials indicate that the Chinese workers who are fighting for these rights are being persecuted. In the United States, many of us are trying our best to help them.”
* On the difficulty in connecting the International Workers' Movement with the Chinese Workers' Movement *
The leader of the Chinese democracy movement, Mr. Wei Jingsheng, said during an interview: "The international workers' movement has always been supportive of the Chinese workers' movement. This support has produced two layers of relationships. One is the issue of how to do the support. The other is that the Chinese government is trying all it can to cut off this support. This struggle has been continuing. Generally speaking, the Chinese workers' movement started by itself in one certain place due to particular reasons. From the beginning, there was not much association with the outside. Therefore, the International Workers' Movement communicates with them after the event, which produces some difficulties in offering support."
"One difficulty is learning who to associate with. Chinese government has always made the ACFTU (All China Federation of Trade Unions) for international relations. But of course, everyone knows that is an organization employed by the government. It is not an independent workers' union after all."
* On the need to have independent workers' unions *
Mr. George Becker encourages Chinese workers to organize independent unions. He said: "If they want to raise their position as workers, to improve their lives, they must establish independent workers' unions and start a workers' movement. This is for sure."
Mr. Wei Jingsheng also mentioned that a successful workers' movement relies on an independent and free workers' union. "International society has always asked the Chinese government to permit for a free union, which is independent of the government. However, the Chinese government has been strictly suppressing the establishment of such free unions. Many of our friends inside China have tried to form independent unions and thus establish ties with international society on a more regular basis. However, their effort has been severely suppressed."
* On the relation between democracy and workers' movements *
In talking about the relationship between workers' movements and social democracy, George Becker thinks that workers' movements are the foundation of democracy.
He said: "Everyone is talking about democracy in China. However, you must have a free workers' movement and then democracy will follow. Democracy does not fall from sky. It is not a reasonless gift the Communist leaders will offer to the people. Democracy must come from the grassroots, from the working people and within the working people who are now on the lowest ground. That is the source of democracy. That is why a workers' movement is so important. They must unite together and hold onto their standing points."
* On the origin of Chinese communism from Workers movements *
Wei JingSheng, who also started as a worker, told the reporter: "The Chinese Communist Party is very much afraid of a workers' movement, because that was how they started."
George Becker expressed his optimism during the interview, although he knows it is very difficult now.
He said: "Of course, it is difficult to be arrested, lose jobs, and be beaten. That kind of thing will happen. But they must continue, not give up. If they can carry on, if they can unite together, to plan, to act, step by step, ultimately they will be successful."
(The Wei Jingsheng Foundation translated the English version from the VOA Chinese report, and is responsible for its accuracy.)
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中文版
Wei Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A93-L5
魏京生基金会新闻与文章发布号：A93-L5
Release Date: December 12, 2004
发布日：2004年12月12日
Topic: Workers Leaders Wei Jingsheng and George Becker Talk of the Workers' Movement in China (Voice of America)
标题：美中工运领袖谈中国工运(美国之音)
Original Language Version: Chinese (Chinese version at the end)
此号以中文为准（英文在前，中文在后）
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美中工运领袖谈中国工运(2004年12月11日)
美国之音 燕青报导
过去一年来，中国工人和农民的抗议示威活动日益增多。这不仅引起中国社会各界的关注，并且也越来越受到世界各国的密切注意。
乔治·贝克15岁就开始进钢铁厂，做了一辈子的钢铁工人，他在1993年和1997年两度被选为代表75万名工人的美国钢铁工人协会主席。他现在是美中经济与安全审议委员会的委员。对中国工人的处境和目前的挣扎，贝克表示深切的同情和支持。
*集体谈判维权*
贝克说：“我从各种文件以及报刊上，注意到中国的工人正在自发组织抗议，而且越来越频繁，罢工也越来越多。中国工人正在更努力地让自己作为一个社会阶层，得到认可，并且得到公平的待遇。”
贝克指出，工人们必须能够以集体的身份，组织起来谈判，才能真正保护自己的权益。
他说：“我以前领导过罢工，也组织过抗议，那都是觉得受到的待遇不公平的时候；我们挑战公司，挑战政府，中国工人现在努力争取做的，我都做过。但是因为是在民主体制下，我们这些举行抗议的人，没有受到逮捕和监禁，但是各种报导和材料都表明，中国工人现在努力争取这些权利，却受到迫害。我们在美国，有很多人，都在尽全力帮助他们。”
*国际工运难与中国工运联系*
中国民主运动领袖魏京生在接受记者采访的时候表示：“国际工人运动一直支持中国的工人运动。这就产生了两种关系。一个是他们怎么支持的问题，一个是中国政府想办法切断这种支持。这种斗争一直在继续着。
“具体说，就是中国的工人运动一般都是自发的，而且是在每一个地方，具体发生的。一开始就跟外界没有什么太多的联络。那么，作为国际工人运动，要想去跟他们联络，就是在他们一发生之后，就给他们以支持，这样就产生很多困难。”
“一个困难就是你找谁的问题，中国政府一般和国际上打交道，都是通过全国总工会来打交道。当然谁都知道那是御用的工会，不是独立的工会。”
*须有独立工会*
乔治·贝克鼓励中国工人组织独立工会。他说：“如果他们想要提高自己作为工人的地位，提高自己的生活水平，就要能够成立独立的工会，开展工人运动。这是一定的。”
魏京生也说，工运要成功就必须有独立自由的工会。“国际社会一直要求中国(政府)允许成立自由工会，就是独立于政府之外的。但是中国政府一直严厉地镇压自由工会的成立。有很多朋友在国内，也企图成立独立工会，这样就可以经常性地跟国际社会有所联络。但是这样做的结果就是都被严厉地镇压下去了。”
*有工运才有民主*
谈到工人运动和社会民主的关系，乔治·贝克认为，工人运动是民主的基石。
他说：“大家都在谈中国的民主，但是你先要有自由工人运动，才能有民主。民主不是从上而下的，不是共产党领导人凭空给老百姓的什么礼物；民主是从下面，从最底层劳动人民中间开始的。那里才是民主的源泉。这就是说为什么工人运动这么重要；而且他们得团结在一起，得有自己的立场。”
*共产党工运起家，如今......*
在海外的中国民主运动著名人士、本身也是工人出身的魏京生对记者说，中国共产党是害怕工人运动的，因为他们自己当年就是这么起家的。
乔治·贝克在接受采访时表示，虽然目前会很困难，但是未来的前景是美好的。
他说：“会有困难，会被抓起来，可能会因此丢了工作，或者被打，等等，那些事，都会发生的。但是他们得一次、再一次地坚持下去，不放弃，而且如果他们能挺住、能团结在一起、能够有计划、有步骤地做事，最后他们会成功的。”
(本期感谢美国之音)
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