Wei Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A144-W64



Release Date: August 6, 2005



Topic: Interview with Wei Jingsheng: The Rise and Fall of the Chinese Communist Party



Original Language Version: Chinese (Chinese version at the end)





Interview with Wei Jingsheng: The Rise and Fall of the Chinese Communist Party 


The Epoch Times

July 6

by Lin Chong


Recently Wei Jingsheng passed through Chicago, and spoke extensively on issues such as the rise and fall of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), Sino-US relations, the rights of Falun Gong practitioners, and the Chinese Democracy Movement.


Lin: With your decades of experience in the Chinese Democracy Movement, how do you view China's current situation in terms of politics, economics, and its global influence?  Right now there are two completely different views on China. One holds that China is on the rise; its global influence is growing larger and larger, and because of China's rise a new world order may be formed.  The other side holds strongly to the view that China will collapse, and that this collapse seems imminent.  How do you look at these two views?



Wei Jingsheng expounding on the mutual relationship between China's rise and collapse


Wei: Actually these two views are interrelated.  When speaking of China's "rise", of course there are some people who speak of it from a positive perspective; they say that China's economy is so, so great, its political situation is so, so stable -- they speak from the perspective of beautifying the situation.  But from another perspective, this so-called "rise of China" is just that China is becoming more aggressive in its diplomacy and foreign relations; this also shows a sense of urgency on the part of the Chinese government.


From the Jiang Zemin era to the Hu Jintao era, the Chinese government has made its scheme more and more clear.  Its scheme is to use success in foreign affairs to resolve unresolvable internal issues.  Therefore it is directly related to the "collapse of China" theory.  Because if we look at phenomena in China, even though its economy and other areas are developing quite quickly, and skyscrapers and mansions are being built everywhere, some extremely serious problems exist.  These problems aren't just serious, they are extremely serious.  If they were in another country that country may have already collapsed.  But with difficulty, China is still maintaining itself, and just because of this situation it constricts the Chinese government and makes the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) feel as if it has no way to resolve these problems unless it were to relinquish power; otherwise these problems are unresolvable.  But it doesn't want to relinquish power, so it has been able to think of another route, which is to expand itself outward.  So its scheme of expansion has become more and more clear and its moves are larger and larger.  Therefore it's given people a direct impression, which is: China is stronger and stronger, as if its on the rise.  But this is also the sign of a crisis.



After Hu Jintao's Ascension


Lin: Your Wei Jingsheng foundation recently has news about human rights activists being threatened and abused by the CCP, and has called upon the international community to pay close attention to this new round of suppression.  After Hu Jintao came into power many people had great hopes in him and felt that he could become China's Gorbachev.  But almost at the same time, he arrested dissidents on a large scale, suppressed China's citizens even further and intensified its persecution of Falun Gong, shattering this hope.  Moreover, he's intensified ideological control over the country.  In your view, why does Hu Jintao act like this and why did people at that time have such hope in him?


Wei Jingsheng: I think on one hand people had a good and kind desire; they always hope that from the CCP there could emerge a wiser leader that would make some compromises with society.  That way the entire country could avoid disaster.  But the CCP has utilized this kind desire to spread its propaganda, extolling Hu Jintao.  So it created a period of time in which everyone was saying: Hu Jintao has so much hope, even though I tried to tell everyone that was not true.  However, what you say to him goes in one ear and out the other, people still wanted to believe that Hu Jintao is a good person, that in all he is a Chinese Gorbachev.


But people have forgotten one thing, which is, he is the ruler of an autocratic and dictatorial regime.  He has to serve the ruling class; how can he make these compromises?  How can he relinquish the CCP's one-party rule?  So inevitably his methods are to use his actions to shatter everyone's hope.


After he became president, he wanted to take power, to be responsible, to maintain the regime, so inevitably he had to oppress the people, detain dissidents on a large scale and persecute all different types of religious groups.  So he believes that he has to use tough methods to deal with whatever threatens his political power.  This is an inevitable phenomenon.


One important point is that people are more and more clearly coming to see this phenomenon.  And after he revealed his true colors, it aroused more people to oppose him.  For example Falun Gong's protests are becoming obvious, their stands are more distinct.  I think that to a great extent they were forced by the CCP to oppose it.  It's a case of the people revolting against officials' suppression.  So this is the relationship between the people and the CCP.  I think that in the end there is only one possible final result.  That is that the CCP's one party rule ends and that a new society is established that is democratic, free, and where people all have basic rights.  I think that this is what everyone hopes for.



Sino-US Relations and Mutual Influence


Lin: At this year's UN Human Rights Convention in Geneva, the US decided that this year they would not table a resolution condemning China's human rights violations.  And earlier during the Chen Yonglin defection case, the Australian government acted in a way unbecoming of a democratic nation.  Why do you think that these democratic nations act this way in regards to common values like democracy, human rights, and freedom?  Western nations went all out in containing the former Soviet Union, so why are they so lenient with the Chinese Communists?



Wei Jingsheng analysing the reasons behind the US decision not to initiate a resolution condemning Chinese human rights violations this year


Wei: I think that this issue is a bit more complicated, for instance when you speak of the US not tabling a resolution this year.  When this happened I immediately went to the State Department to discuss this with them.  At that time the Acting Assistant Secretary of State explained to me their major reasons for doing this.


One of them was the old way of paying close attention to Chinese human rights violations can't be said to be innefective, but its effects aren't that obvious. So they want to try to change their methodology a little, that is, they have come to certain terms with the CCP; they've required the CCP to agree to certain conditions, and the CCP has actually agreed to a series of conditions.  So they say that they'll test it for a year, give the CCP some chance.  If the CCP can't completely meet these conditions, then we'll go back to the old way.  If it can agree to these conditions, isn't that great?  Chinese human rights really will improve quickly.  Of course everyone guessed that the CCP won't do too much, but at the very least it will do something.


One other important thing that the US can't speak openly about and didn't say to me openly is that everyone is discussing a particular situation: in reality the North Korean nuclear threat has created a serious crisis all over Asia, a bigger crisis than people had expected.  So in order to resolve this issue the US government hopes to come to some compromises with China, requiring China to come to certain compromises with North Korea on the issue of nuclear weapons.  If this method can bring genuine contributions to securing peace in Asia, then I think for our Chinese people to sacrifice a little is necessary, there's nothing we can do.


So for the US not to initiate a resolution condemning Chinese human rights violations, this may have some relationship with Western governments' weak stance on China, but you could also say that

it's not directly related.


But the question you just asked is very important, that is, why have Western governments been so weak on democracy and human rights issues on China?  They have one stance towards the Soviet Union and another towards China; one stance on South Africa and another on China, even to the point that they use completely different standards.  Because I have been working on these issues for many years, so I have come in direct contact with these issues.  These are things that average citizens are even less able to understand, and will feel a greater contrast with their governments.  Why is there this phenomenon?


In my analysis there are a few reasons.  First, the CCP's diplomatic bribery tactics have been relatively successful.  It uses major Western companies to deal with western politicians, allowing them to indirectly influence western governments.  This tactic is quite successful.  After Western governments are interfered with in this way, for a period of time they aren't able to think of a way to adapt to or to deal with this method, so they are greatly influenced by the Chinese government.  Thus, their policies seem extremely weak, appearing unusually weak on China.


The Western governments can condemn an African nation, and can even attack a middle sized countries like Iraq and Afghanistan, but somehow doesn't dare to criticize the CCP.  This is very strange.


Also, the Chinese government utilizes the conflicts between Europe and the US to sow discord between the two.  Then the two sides will compete to kiss up to the Chinese government.  Westerners feel disgusted by this situation.  We've talked in private with numerous Western governments about these issues.  They also feel disgusted by it, but sometimes they feel like they have no alternative because there's a lot of practical political benefits there.  Because the CCP's hands have already extended over here, it directly influences Western public opinion and influences, as well as the business that major western companies do.


So I feel that this is an issue we should all think about.  It may not be that simple and easy to resolve, but if in the end everyone understands the CCP's schemes, after understanding them we all will have ways to deal with them.  It's not something that can be resolved by just saying a few words; we all have to work hard.



(The Wei Jingsheng Foundation is responsible for the accuracy of this version of the English translation.)



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Wei Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A144-W64



Release Date: August 6, 2005



Topic: Interview with Wei Jingsheng: The Rise and Fall of the Chinese Communist Party































































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