Wei
Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A576-W344
魏京生基金会新闻与文章发布号：A576-W344
Release
Date: October 16, 2010
发布日：2010年10月16日
Topic:
Liu Xiaobo's Nobel Prize and the Current China -- Wei Jingsheng's Interview on
the 6 o'clock news on TV5Monde, a channel broadcast throughout the
French-speaking world
标题：刘晓波获诺贝尔和平奖及现今中国的局势 -- 魏京生接受全球性的法语电视网“法语5台世界”的采访内容
Original
Language Version: Chinese (original French video; English at beginning, Chinese
version at the end)
此号以中文为准（法语电视录像；英文在前，中文在后）
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Liu
Xiaobo's Nobel Prize and the Current China
--
Wei Jingsheng's Interview on the 6 o'clock news on TV5Monde
On
October 15, 2010, TV5Monde, a channel broadcast throughout the French-speaking
world, broadcasted its interview of Wei Jingsheng in Washington DC, in
regarding Liu Xiaobo's Nobel Prize and the current China. The Following is a briefing of Wei
Jingsheng said during this interview.
There
is a positive effect of giving the Nobel Peace Prize to Liu Xiaobo. In recent years, the suppression of the
Chinese people by the Chinese Communist Party has become more brutal. Many people feel frustrated and
depressed in their fight for freedom and democracy. When a Chinese dissident receives an award, it boosts the
mood of the people and raises people's confidence in striving for democracy and
human rights. This is the good
side. However, Liu advocated
cooperation with the Chinese government and not to resist the Chinese
Communists. He even assisted the
government in criticizing and ridiculing others in the opposition. This attitude will lead people to give
up the struggle against the Communist Party and will reduce pressure on the
Communist government.
Why
do I say that Liu's road is a dead end one? It is because one cannot use reason alone in dealing with
the unreasonable Chinese Communist government. We must have a strong pressure, both international and
domestic, to force the Chinese government to make concessions. To guide people
to give up their pressure, to make "positive interaction" with the
unreasonable tyranny, and to beg the autocratic government for political
reforms, is to give up the chance for peaceful evolution. Ultimately, people's anger will
accumulate to the extent that outbreaks of revolution and unrest will happen. This result will be a great loss to the
Chinese society, and will not be beneficial to the international community and
business as well. Liu Xiaobo
himself made too much compromise and cooperation with the Chinese government,
even to the degree of gibing other fellow dissidents in an effort to please the
authorities. Yet, in the end, he
was thrown into prison. This in itself proves that his road is a dead end road.
I
did not sign the objection letter written against Liu Xiaobo's nomination for
Nobel Peace Prize before. I think
that any Chinese dissident getting this prize would be a great inspiration to
the Chinese people, because the Chinese people view the Nobel Prize
highly. So only after he won this
prize, have I begun to openly criticize him now. I do not want people to be guided by his wrong road, to give
up their pressure, instead to cooperate with the authoritarian government. Liu's own experience has proved that
his road of cooperation is the wrong way.
Regarding
the issue of the Falun Gong, some people agree with their arguments, some
people do not agree. This is
normal. But when the Falun Gong
practitioners suffer from large-scale persecution by the Communist Party, we
must fight for their rights to criticize the Chinese government. Yet, Liu Xiaobo and his gang satirized
and gibed these abused victims, in the same tone as the Communist regime. This is not right. This does not meet the respect of an
opposition, and even has no comparison to ordinary people with a conscience.
Regarding
worrying about whether Liu's Nobel Prize will split Chinese democracy movement,
I think this division has always been there, from the start. Members of the China's democracy
movement come from different social backgrounds, with different ideas. So from the beginning of the
pro-democracy movement, it has been a movement with inconsistent thinking and
behavior. Not just from now.
Many
people think I'm better qualified for this prize. But I think the situation now is that the Westerners do not
want people like me to get the prize.
They do not want the Chinese people to rise up, thus affecting their
interests in China. Many Western
companies know that without the help of the Chinese Communist Party, they
cannot get such cheap and excellent labor in China. So they hope that all the Chinese people will obediently cooperate
with the Chinese government and accept oppression without opposition, thus
protecting their opportunity for huge profits. These Westerners do want a continued Communist dictatorship
regime in China.
So
which kind of road should Chinese democracy take? I think there are only two options. One is following Nelson Mandela of
South Africa and the former Soviet Union.
When there is both strong international and domestic pressure on the
autocratic regime, authorities had to adopt the way of peaceful evolution. This is possible in China. But now, due to the economic interests,
Western countries have reduced the pressure on China more and more. When the resistance of people in China
also is guided to the direction of working with the Chinese regime, the
pressure gets even smaller. So,
what could the suffering ordinary people without any help do? Eventually, they have to rebel, leading
to a major upheaval. This upheaval
would not be a good thing to either Chinese society or the international community.
So,
if people have been guided to the path of cooperation with the regime, there
will be no hope for peaceful evolution.
Even some senior government officials hoping for change, will change
their minds, thus losing the motivation for peaceful evolution. Then the people have no way out but a
violent revolution. If people
choose violent revolution, of course I would be on the side of ordinary people. I support them in any way to overthrow
an authoritarian regime.
Many
people in the West say that when the economy is developed, China will be
democratic. But this is not what
the Chinese government thinks. The
original thought of the Chinese government was that when the economy is good,
people will not rebel, and then they can have a long-term stability of the
authoritarian regime. Current
economic development in China is of a nature that some people get rich, but
ordinary people are still very poor.
This huge gap between rich and poor is the real reason that the people
are extremely unhappy, and ready to revolt. This situation is not a sustainable development. Chinese people are still very poor, the
Chinese domestic market is very small, and therefore we cannot say that the
Chinese economy has really developed.
GDP growth was very fast, but ordinary people did not enjoy the fruits
of growth. Major Western and
Chinese companies got most of the benefits. This is also the root reason why the Western business and
government want to support the Chinese Communist regime.
Nowadays,
Western governments have largely adopted an unconcerned attitude regarding
Chinese human rights. At the
beginning of the Obama administration, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton
expressed clearly during her first visit to Asia including China that human
rights is not what she is concerned about. Their policy is not to support the Chinese people's
resistance and not to offend the Chinese government, in an effort to protect
their interests in China. So the
concern of human rights in China is gradually cooling down over the last
years. Now, with a Chinese getting
the prize, we have an encouragement to the Chinese people.
Regarding
my own sacrifice to democracy in China, I have nothing to regret. Whether in Chinese prison or overseas,
I have always been striving to change the destiny of China, and it is very
effective. When I was in prison, I
become a big trouble for the Communist Party; Later on, I agreed to come
overseas because I found out that the situation had changed. I can use my reputation to do more
effective work here. Indeed for
the past more than one decade, I have done a lot of important and effective
work. I am very satisfied with
what I have achieved.
The
original program can be viewed at TV5Monde's website at:
http://www.tv5.org/cms/chaine-francophone/info/Les-dossiers-de-la-redaction/video-redac-web/p-13350-Entretien-avec-Wei-Jingsheng-dissident-chinois-en-exil.htm
or
by visiting:
http://www.weijingsheng.org/interviews/interviews2010/FrenchTV5Monde101014WeiJSinterview.flv
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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中文版
Wei
Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A576-W344
魏京生基金会新闻与文章发布号：A576-W344
Release
Date: October 16, 2010
发布日：2010年10月16日
Topic:
Liu Xiaobo's Nobel Prize and the Current China -- Wei Jingsheng's Interview on
the 6 o'clock news on TV5Monde, a channel broadcast throughout the
French-speaking world
标题：刘晓波获诺贝尔和平奖及现今中国的局势 -- 魏京生接受全球性的法语电视网“法语5台世界”的采访内容
Original
Language Version: Chinese (original French video; English at beginning, Chinese
version at the end)
此号以中文为准（法语电视录像；英文在前，中文在后）
如有中文乱码问题，请与我们联系或访问:
http://www.weijingsheng.org/report/report2010/report2010-10/FrenchTV5Monde101016WeiJSinterviewA576-W344.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------
刘晓波获诺贝尔和平奖及现今中国的局势
-- 魏京生接受全球性的法语电视网“法语5台世界”的采访内容
2010年10月15日上午6点的黄金时间，全球性的法语电视网“法语5台世界”向法语世界播出了就刘晓波获诺贝尔和平奖与现今中国的局势对魏京生先生所进行的采访。以下为魏京生接受采访的简述：
刘晓波获奖有它的正面作用。近年来中共对人民的镇压比过去更残酷了,很多人对争取民主自由感到灰心，情绪低落。有一个中国的异议人士获奖，对老百姓的心情是一大振奋。它提高人们争取人权民主的信心。这是好的一方面。但是刘晓波主张和政府合作，不要和政府对抗，而且协助政府批评和嘲讽别的反对派人士。这就会引导人们放弃和共产党的斗争，减少对政府的压力。
为什么说刘晓波的道路是走不通的道路呢？这是因为针对一个蛮不讲理的中共政府，只靠讲道理根本就行不通。必须有强大的压力，国际和国内的压力，才能迫使中共政府让步。引导人们放弃压力，和不讲理的暴政“良性互动”，向专制政府乞求政治改革，就等于放弃了和平演变的机会。最终人民的愤怒积累到一定的程度就会爆发革命和动乱。这对中国社会是个很大的损失，对国际社会和商人们也很不利。刘晓波本人向中国政府作了那么多的妥协合作，甚至不惜以谩骂同道来讨好当局。最后他还是被抓进了监狱。这本身就证明了他的道路是走不通的。
我没有参加那封事先反对刘晓波得奖的签名信。这是因为我认为任何一个中国异议人士获奖，对中国人民都是个巨大的鼓舞，因为中国人把诺贝尔奖看得很重。所以在他得奖之后，我现在才开始公开批评他。我不希望人民被他的错误路线所引导，放弃压力去和专制政府合作。因为刘晓波自己的遭遇就证明了他的合作道路是一条错误的道路。
在法轮功的问题上，有人同意他们的说法，也有人不同意。这都很正常。但是在人家受到大规模迫害的时候，我们都必须为他们争取人权，抨击中国政府。而刘晓波和他们那一伙人却采取了讽刺、谩骂受害者，和当局一个口气的做法。这是不对的。这不符合反对派人士的身份，甚至不如一个有良心的普通人。
说到刘晓波的获奖会带来民主运动的分裂。我想这种分裂一直就有，从一开始就有。中国的民运人士来自于不同的社会背景，也有不同的思想。所以民运一开始就是一个思想和行为不一致的运动。不是从现在开始的。
许多人认为我更有资格获奖。但我认为现在的形势西方人肯定不希望我这样的人获奖。他们不希望中国人民起来反抗，影响他们在中国的利益。很多西方的大企业知道没有共产党的压迫，他们就不能在中国使用那么便宜的优良劳动力，就不能赚大钱。所以他们希望中国人民都乖乖地和政府合作，接受压迫，不要反抗，来保护他们赚大钱的机会。他们希望中共独裁政府继续存在下去。
那么中国的民主应该走什么样的道路呢？我想只有两种选择。一种是南非曼德拉他们和苏联那样，靠国际和国内两种强大的压力，迫使当局不得不采取和平演变的方式。这在中国是有可能的。但是现在西方国家出于经济利益的考虑，越来越对中国减轻了压力。国内人民的反抗如果也被引导向与政府合作的方向，压力就更小了。那么，那些困苦无依的老百姓怎么办呢？最终他们只好造反，导致一场大的动乱。这对中国社会和国际社会都不是什么好事。
所以说，如果人们都被引导向和政府合作的道路，和平演变就没有什么希望了。就是本来希望改变的政府高层人士，也会改变主意，失去和平演变的动机。那老百姓就只剩下暴力革命这一条路了。如果老百姓选择了暴力革命，我当然是站在老百姓的一边。我支持他们以任何方式推翻专制政权。
西方很多人说经济发展了，中国也就会民主了。但这不是中国政府的想法。中国政府本来的设想是经济好了人民就可以不造反了，他们的专制政权就可以长治久安了。现在的经济发展是有一部分人富起来了，可是普通老百姓仍然很贫困。巨大的贫富差距正是老百姓极端不满，要起来造反的真正原因。这样的状况不是一个可持续的发展。中国的老百姓仍然非常贫困，中国的国内市场非常狭小，因此并不能说中国的经济真正发展了。GDP增长得非常快，但是老百姓并没有享受到增长的成果。是中国和西方的大企业得到了大部分的好处。这也是西方商界和政府支持中国政府的根本原因。
对中国的人权，西方政府基本上采取的是漠不关心的态度。奥巴马政府上台以后，希拉里国务卿第一次访问中国就表达得很清楚：人权不是她要关心的重点。他们的政策就是不支持中国人民的反抗，不激怒中国政府，以保障他们在中国的利益。所以对中国人权的关注，多年来都是在逐渐降温。所以，这一次有一个中国人得奖，也是对中国人民的一个鼓励。
对于我为中国民主所做出的牺牲，我没有什么可后悔的。无论在监狱里还是在海外，我都是为了改变中国的命运而努力，而且很有成效。在监狱里我是中共的一大麻烦；后来我同意出来，是因为我发现形势变了。我出来能利用我的声望做更有效的工作。确实这十几年来做了很多重要的，有成效的工作。我对自己非常满意。
电视播出的原始连接：
http://www.tv5.org/cms/chaine-francophone/info/Les-dossiers-de-la-redaction/video-redac-web/p-13350-Entretien-avec-Wei-Jingsheng-dissident-chinois-en-exil.htm
或访问:
http://www.weijingsheng.org/interviews/interviews2010/FrenchTV5Monde101014WeiJSinterview.flv
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