Wei
Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A724-W454
魏京生基金会新闻与文章发布号： A724-W454
Release
Date: July 15, 2012
发布日：2012年7月15日
Topic:
Radio Free Asia Mandarin Service's Launches a Video Series Introducing the Life
of Wei Jingsheng, Who Challenges Authoritarian Regimes (Video Links and
Transcript of Part 1)
标题：自由亚洲电台访谈节目“历程” -- “挑战独裁的魏京生”专题（上集的录像及文字）
Original
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
Radio
Free Asia Mandarin Service's Launches a Video Series Introducing the Life of
Wei Jingsheng, Who Challenges Authoritarian Regimes (Video Links and Transcript
of Part 1)
Radio
Free Asia Mandarin service has launched a video series on its homepage
introducing the life story of Wei Jingsheng (at
http://www.rfa.org/mandarin/). The
following is the text content and the web link of the first part of the special
video interview program "Course of Life" about Wei Jingsheng, who
challenges authoritarian regimes:
http://www.rfa.org/mandarin/duomeiti/tebiejiemu/lic-06252012153247.html
This
part of the video is also available at:
http://www.weijingsheng.org/interviews/interviews2012/RFAprofile2012WeiJingSheng1.mp4
The
following is the transcript of Part 1 of the series about Wei Jingsheng.
__ __ __
Radio
Free Asia interview program "Course of Life": Wei Jingsheng
Challenging Authoritarian Regimes (transcript of Part 1)
Radio
Free Asia: Why has Mr. Wei Jingsheng, as a child of a high-ranking official,
called out "for democracy or a new dictatorship"? Why did he spend his youth in prison
without regrets? Please join us to
listen to his course of life.
Wei
Jingsheng: (on being in jail) Deng Xiaoping talked about two things: the first
was to release me if it should be, as it was not meaningful to keep me locked
up; the second was to delete the 49 parts with my name in his Selected Works
of Deng Xiaoping, which he remembered quite clearly. Therefore, in the Selected Works of
Deng Xiaoping that was published afterwards, my name does not appear
anymore. Then they had (one of the
top Communist leaders) Chen Yun's sister-in-law came to our home to tell my
father the whole process, saying that Deng Xiaoping's daughter asked to tell my
father. Of course I would know if
they told my father. That was
meant to ease the relationship between us so I would not criticize him again.
RFA
Reporter: And then you came out and still criticized him.
Wei
Jingsheng: I said what I should say, right? What I said were facts, why not?
Narrator:
His parents were senior Communist Party cadres. He grew up receiving his education in the so-called red
elite aristocrat schools in Beijing.
Favorable conditions gave him the chance to witness high-level power
struggles within the Chinese Communist leadership. Yet to the end, with the expense of his youth, he suffered
the pain of prison. He did so in
order to greet a truly democratic China.
He is Wei Jingsheng, who published a series of articles such as
"the Fifth Modernization -- Democracy" at the Democracy Wall
movement, and challenged the Chinese Communist dictators openly with his real
name.
RFA
Reporter: Considering your family background, you are what we call "the
second generation of officials".
In fact, you could have quietly enjoyed a prosperous life, without
caring about other human beings.
What prompted you to think of democracy in China?
Wei
Jingsheng: In fact, this description of "the second generation of
officials" now is different from it was thirty years ago. At that time, there was not much
distance from us, the so-called offspring of the Communist cadres, and the
ordinary people. Now, the
"second generation of officials" and "the second generation of
the rich" are high above the people and very different from the ordinary
people. Then, not only were we,
the so-called offspring of the Communist cadres, not very different from the
ordinary people, but also our parent's generation did not join the Communist
Party when they were young for the purpose of being officials. Just like the Kuomintang officials,
they wanted a good future for China, although they choose a different doctrine
and participated in the Communist Party.
So we were taught the subjects of democracy, freedom, and caring for the
people, etc. as a very natural part of education. But when we saw the reality, we were not satisfied at all. Of course that produced the difference
in our thought. Of course, these
thoughts were also associated with the Cultural Revolution. During the Cultural Revolution, we were
against (the paramount leader) Mao Zedong. We may be the first to have risen up against Mao
Zedong. At the end of 1966, we had
a fairly large organization with a lot of people participating, to oppose Jiang
Qing, which actually was opposing Mao Zedong. We were against the Cultural Revolution Group led by the
Standing Committee of the Politburo of the Chinese Communist Party.
RFA
Reporter: At that time you thought against the CCP already?
Wei
Jingsheng: It was not very clear at that time. But since then, I gradually recognized the reality and the
propaganda of the Communist Party were completely different. Before that, when I was at school,
teachers told me very good things about the Communist Party; my parents also
spoke well for the Communist Party.
But the reality I saw was not so.
There was one episode that impacted greatly on me particularly when I
was touring during the Cultural Revolution period. It was near TianShui of Gansu Providence, when the train
made a temporary stop at the station.
I saw the people were so poor, that beggars did not even have any clothes
on them. They were right under my
train window. When I got some food
for them, I saw a young girl of 17 or 18 years old, with her younger brother. She was totally naked and very
dirty. Of course I did not see
that in the distance until they approached me. I was shocked.
This experience really touched me.
At that time, many young people started thinking why did the Communist
Party say good things, but the reality was not the case? The Communist Party said that it will
save China, but people still suffered such poverty and hardship. These things triggered many of our
young people. From the 1960's to
1970's, we started to think and become rebellious. We studied Marxism-Leninism, and tried to think what was
wrong with Mao Zedong Thought.
Then we studied and tried to figure out what was wrong with Leninism,
finally what was wrong with Marxism.
Some people finally realized that while the Communist Party said that
democracy is a good thing, in the end it wants the dictatorship, so the result
could only be like what is now. Of
course, this thought process was slow.
We had limited books and limited materials in China, thus it took a long
process to understand the society.
We
had a political teacher, who was a professor at People's University but was
demoted to our middle school when he was categorized as "a
rightist". He would often
guide students to be interested in politics during his teaching. He would raise some issues and talk
about Marxism-Leninism, and debate with us the students. Thus even before the Cultural
Revolution, my classmates had begun to be interested in politics, and
interested in Marxism-Leninism.
That was purely for the need for debate with the teacher.
RFA
Reporter: The teacher was orthodox, and you were against him?
Wei
Jingsheng: Not necessarily.
Sometimes the two sides swapped.
Sometimes we had heated debate.
Later, during the Cultural Revolution, we were all very concerned about
politics.
RFA
Reporter: Did CCP want to arrest you back then, or your activity had danger?
Wei
Jingsheng: I spent time in jail even that time. Due to Lian-Dong (i.e. the Joint Action Committee of the Red
Guards from Capital's Middle Schools), I went to jail in 1967. When I went to jail due to the
Democracy Wall, it was my second time in prison.
Narrator:
Lian-Dong is the abbreviation of the Joint Action Committee of the Red Guards
from Capital's Middle Schools. It
was established on December 5, 1966, and headquartered in the Auxiliary Middle
School of the Beijing University.
It was composed of a group of youth of 16 or 17 years old. Wei Jingsheng at that time was one of
the members. They were mostly the
children of the martyrs of the Communist Party, and offspring of high-level
Communist officials and military officers. They were the earliest old Red Guards once affirmed by Mao
Zedong. Their main purpose was to
oppose the Cultural Revolution Group led by the Standing Committee of the
Politburo of the Chinese Communist Party, and they were against arbitrary
arrests of the veterans of the revolution. Because its activities interfered with Mao Zedong's
strategic plan "Down with the capitalist roaders", on January 17,
1967, Xie Fuzhi, the then Minister of Public Security announced:
"Lian-Dong is a reactionary organization, its leaders are
counter-revolutionary."
Wei
Jingsheng: Our practice was that we were not afraid even when we were
banned. Initially, the government
detained several of our people. We
went to attack the Ministry of Public Security and really messed it up. The result was several hundred of us
were arrested.
RFA
Reporter: All young people?
Wei
Jingsheng: All young people. At
the beginning when we were arrested, it was not very long. Mao Zedong ordered the release of all
of them. Mao is relatively
cunning. He did not want to offend
all the cadres. Most of our
members were the children of the cadres, especially the cadres in various
ministries and the central government in Beijing. So Mao ordered the release of all these people. But we continued our action after we
were released. Many of us were
that kind of character that we would not stop. But we were not allowed to continue. At the end of 1967, they started
arrests again, mainly the leaders.
They caught all on the list of eighty some people, except me. I went to hide everywhere, all over the
country. In the end, I really
could not find a place to hide.
Their efficiency in their work was quite high. After I spent a couple days in a new place, they would
follow my footsteps. At the end, I
had gone to the countryside. So I
was several months earlier to go to the countryside before the call by Mao
Zedong.
RFA
Reporter: How long did you hide?
Wei
Jingsheng: I simply decided to go to the countryside. My father said: Do not come back, there is news that the
Ministry of Public Security has been waiting for you. So I decided to forget about returning to Beijing and
returned to the countryside of our ancestor hometown as a young intellectual. I spent two years in the countryside, until
1969.
RFA
Reporter: As a senior official of the Communist Party, what was your father's
treatment of your advanced democratic ideas? Did he support them or oppose them?
Wei
Jingsheng: In that generation of communists, they were also for democracy when
they were young. However, as they
walked on this road of Communism further and further, they got stuck deeper and
deeper. Like my father, the older
generation Communist Party has strong feelings. When I returned home from jail in 1993, I had a lot of
profound thoughts and feelings for that older generation of communists like my
father. I met a lot of people who
were of that generation that I call aunts and uncles. They were almost all extremely unhappy with the status
quo. They were so critical of the
Communist Party that they called it names even worse than we used. As least when we cursed the Communist
Party, we would not use the four lettered dirty words, but when they cursed it,
it was hard to listen to. In fact,
when they were young, they also wanted the Chinese people have a better life;
they all knew that China needs democracy and freedom, and also were fighting
for these ideas. Otherwise, with
their good life such as my father had who was a college professor, why should
they bother to join the Communist Party for the revolution with all the
personal risks? They could die any
day. They also had a whole cavity
of hot blood for the people in China.
Yet, as they went down this road, following Mao Zedong, they departed
further and further from their original goal. The Chinese people have such a bitter life, even worse than
in the past, worse than in the KMT period. Of course these cadres also have thoughts and feelings. Looking back, they were also very
upset. Many of these cadres were
very high ranked and joined the Communist Party very early, they would tell me:
"You are a good boy!"
When I returned home in 1993 from jail, they said to me: "what you
did, was what we wanted yet were unable to accomplish when we were young."
In fact,
the Chinese have been pursuing democracy, by many people, generation to
generation. The problem is that
both the Kuomintang and the Communist Party went down the wrong roads. We should not blame the Chinese people,
or say the Chinese people are not good.
So many people had lost their lives and shed their blood to fight for
democracy and freedom. But
eventually China went down the road of corrupt officials. It must need us the Chinese to think
carefully about it.
RFA
Reporter: Had your father personally praised you?
Wei
Jingsheng: In 1998 (Editor's note: It should be the year 2000) when he came to
see me, when I was already in the United States, he praised me: "Well
done!"
RFA
Reporter: He praised you only after 1998?
Wei
Jingsheng: I was never praised when I was young. My dad was especially strict, with his old-fashioned teacher
background. He was very strict,
very serious. When he was home, he
made "en, en" sound (out of his nose to express his authority)."
RFA
Reporter: But you could feel his support from his attitude, right?
Wei
Jingsheng: In fact, before I went to jail in 1979, these old Communists already
saw reality very clearly. I met
some of the old Communists who were very interested in our Democracy Wall. This interest is what I just talked
about. These people worked all
their lifetime, only made a large circle to come back to the starting
point. They went down a wrong road,
and even a lot of them went to jail.
They did so much for the Communist Party, to sacrifice their lives and
shed their blood, some of them were very famous and high-level, and finally
only ended their fate in such a way.
So at that time, they were very concerned about the Democracy Wall, at
least they were very supportive in fighting for democracy, freedom, and human
rights. Because when they were
young, they were engaged in exactly this.
Of course, regarding our certain argument, they sometimes felt very
nervous. Some people said that
there was a little problem with what I said. Some people, like my father, said: what you said may have
been all right, but your way will land you in jail and die soon. Thus it would be better to stop.
RFA
Reporter: He was worrying about you.
Wei
Jingsheng: Yes, from this perspective, he was worrying about me. Some uncles and aunts advised me the
same: what you said certainly is right, but you will soon go to jail. At that time, we all understood that
the Communist Party would not allow you to tell the truth, or you would have to
go to jail for telling the truth.
RFA
Reporter: But they still like to listen to the truth, right?
Wei
Jingsheng: Of course, everyone knows in his heart. For people of my father's rank, they could read
"internal references".
Even though they were able to read something much more than ordinary
people could, they still liked to hear some broadcasting from the outside. But they did not support their children
listening to these foreign broadcasts.
When their children listened, they warned the children. But they listened themselves, because
they got different things by listening to the foreign broadcasting. People are all the same, regardless
right or wrong. If I hear everything,
I will make a judgment to know what is right. If I am only allowed to listen to a little bit, then I will
feel cheated. If one is only
allowed to hear one thing, it is certainly not reliable. Regardless if it is true or not, the
impression is not reliable. In
fact, many Communist Party cadres were just like ordinary people, they were also
"eavesdropping enemy broadcasting."
In
1993, when I went back home, my father told me that he always listened to
several stations. In 1998 (note by
the editor: it should be 2000) when he came to visit me, he told me that he
listened daily to 4 stations: one was the Voice of America, one was Radio Free
Asia, one was BBC, and another one was FRI. These four were what he must listen to. When my brother and sister came back
home, he would tell them what was on the radio. My father had very good memory.
RFA
Reporter: Listening to four stations would make him very busy.
Wei
Jingsheng: He was a retired old man, without much to do everyday. As soon as I was sent to the prison,
they made him retire immediately.
At that time, his career was flourishing. Even Jiang Zemin (who later took the top post in China) was
still in my dad's office to assist and learning. It was the second rise of his career. The first time was around 1949. But later, he was hit and demoted.
RFA
Reporter: Did he blame you?
Wei
Jingsheng: No. My family did not
blame me. They understood what I
was doing. Not only my father, but
also my brother and sisters, including my brother-in-law understood. My brother-in-law already had his visa
to England representing the Chinese shipbuilding industry in the United
Kingdom. Three days before his
departure, his trip was canceled.
That was end of his lifelong career in technology. People like me are not just the ones
who sacrifice, but also our family members including our siblings, parents,
children, all are affected and receive the persecution of the Communist
Party. The whole family pays this
price.
RFA
Reporter: But they still continuously support you.
Wei
Jingsheng: Yet. We are a
family. They also understand me. What I do is a good thing, not a bad
thing.
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中文版
Wei
Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A724-W454
魏京生基金会新闻与文章发布号： A724-W454
Release
Date: July 15, 2012
发布日：2012年7月15日
Topic:
Radio Free Asia Mandarin Service's Launches a Video Series Introducing the Life
of Wei Jingsheng, Who Challenges Authoritarian Regimes (Video Links and
Transcript of Part 1)
标题：自由亚洲电台访谈节目“历程” -- “挑战独裁的魏京生”专题（上集的录像及文字）
Original
Language Version: Chinese (Chinese version at the end)
此号以中文为准（英文在前，中文在后）
如有中文乱码问题，请与我们联系或访问:
http://www.weijingsheng.org/report/report2012/report2012-07/WeiJSprofile120715RFAinterview1A724-W454.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------
自由亚洲电台访谈节目“历程” -- “挑战独裁的魏京生”专题（上集的录像及文字）
自由亚洲电台普通话首页近期隆重推出有关魏京生生平的视频系列集。以下是历程访谈节目“挑战独裁的魏京生”专题上集的文字内容及相关联接：http://www.rfa.org/mandarin/duomeiti/tebiejiemu/lic-06252012153247.html
该录像也可以在以下网页上观看：
http://www.weijingsheng.org/interviews/interviews2012/RFAprofile2012WeiJingSheng1.mp4
以下为相关文字。
__ __ __
自由亚洲电台访谈节目“历程” -- “挑战独裁的魏京生”
自由亚洲电台：作为高干子弟的魏京生先生，为何喊出"要民主还是要新的独裁"？为何置青春年华于狱中却无怨无悔？请和我们一起聆听他的历程。
魏京生：（就我坐牢）邓小平讲了两点：第一点是该放就放，关着没意思；第二点就是把他自己邓选里的49处，他自己记得还挺清楚的，49处提到我的地方全部删掉。所以后面出的邓选已经没有我的名字了。然后让陈云的小姨子跑到我们家来告诉我父亲整个过程，说邓小平女儿来讲的让转告我父亲。转告我父亲不就是转告我嘛。那意思要缓和一下关系，你出来别再骂我了。
记者：然后出来以后您还接着骂。
魏京生：那该怎么说还是怎么说，对不对？因为那都是事实，我干嘛不说啊？
画外音：他的父母均为中共高级干部，从小在北京所谓的红色贵族学校接受教育。优越的条件，也使他有机会目睹了中南海中共高层的权利斗争。最后不惜牺牲青春年华，饱受牢狱之苦，为的是迎来一个真正民主的中国。他就是在民主墙的运动中发表了第五个现代化等一系列文章，并用真名实姓公然向中共独裁者挑战的魏京生先生。
记者：以您的家庭背景来讲，您就是现在所说的官二代。其实您完全可以平静地享受富足的生活，不问人间冷暖。是什么原因促使你思索中国的民主呢？
魏京生：其实官二代这个词，现在和三十年前不一样。那个时候共产党的干部和普通老百姓的生活差别不是很大，所以我们所谓的这些干部子弟，和老百姓的距离并不是很远。
而现在的官二代、富二代已经是高高在上了，和老百姓差别非常大。那个时候，一个是差别不大，一个是我们的父代当年年轻时不是为了当官才参加共产党的。和国民党的官员差不多，都是为了让中国有个好前途，只不过大家选择了不同的主义，参加共产党。所以我们从小受到的教育，像民主啊，自由啊，关心老百姓这些等这些，都是很自然的一种教育。看到现实，完全不满意，当然就产生思想上的差别。当然这和文革有关系。文革时，反对毛泽东。我们可能是最早起来反对毛泽东的。六六年底的时候，有一个相当庞大的组织，很多人参加，反对江青，实际上就是反对毛泽东，反对中央文革。我们就是那个组织的。
记者：那个时候你就想到过反对中共？
魏京生：那个时候还不是很明确。但是从那以后，渐渐认识到了共产党的现实和宣传的东西是完全不一样的。从前在学校学，老师讲的都很好，父母那时讲的也很好，都替共产党说话。但真正看到的现实不是这样的。对我影响特别大的是大串联时，有一次在甘肃天水附近，一个临时停车的小车站上。我看到老百姓那个穷啊，要饭的都光着屁股，就在我的车窗下边。我拿着东西要给他们的时候，看到一个十七、八岁的姑娘，带着她弟弟，完全一丝不挂，很脏。当然在远处看不出来，他们走近了我才看清，大吃一惊。这件事情对我触动非常大。当时很多年轻人都开始思考，为什么共产党说得很好听，可是现实不是这样？说是要救中国，可是老百姓现在还是这么贫穷困苦。这些事触发我们很多年轻人。从六六年六七年开始就思考，就有些反叛了。大家研究马列主义，思考毛泽东思想究竟错在哪里。然后研究列宁主义错在哪里，最后马克思主义错在哪里。有些人终于明白了，你说要民主，都是好东西，可是最后又要专政，其结果只能是现在这样。当然这个思想过程也是缓慢的。在国内能够看到的书毕竟有限，资料也有限，因此需要一个较长的过程来认识社会。
当时有一个政治老师，他过去是人大的右派。他经常在班里引导学生关心政治，提出一些问题，马列主义等等，和学生辩论。这样我们同班同学在文革前都开始对政治感兴趣，对马列主义感兴趣了，那时纯粹是为了和老师辩论的需要。
记者：老师是正方，你们是反方？
魏京生：不一定。有时正反方互换。有时辩论很激烈。后来文革期间大家都很关心政治。
记者：那时你有没有经历中共想抓捕你，或是你的活动存在着危险？
魏京生：那个时候我就蹲过监狱。六七年事情因为联动，我就蹲过监狱。民主墙是第二次进监狱。
画外音：联动是文化大革命时期首都红卫兵联合行动委员会的简称。一九六六年十二月五日成立，总部设在北大附中。由一批十六、七岁的青年人组成。当年的魏京生先生就在其中。他们多为烈士子女、高干军干子弟，是曾受到毛泽东肯定的最早的老红卫兵。其主旨是反对中央文革，和反对乱揪革命老前辈。由于联动的活动干扰了毛泽东“打倒走资派”的战略部署，一九六七年一月十七日，时任公安部长谢富治说：“联动是反动组织，头头是反革命。”
魏京生：我们的做法是，你取缔，我们不管。开始抓了我们几个人，我们就去冲公安部，把公安部冲得乱七八糟，结果呼拉一下抓了好几百人。
记者：都是年轻人？
魏京生：都是年轻人。开始我们被抓，时间不长，后来毛泽东下令把这些人全放了。毛泽东比较狡猾，他不愿意一开始把所有的干部都得罪了。因为联动里的大部分成员都是干部子弟，而且是北京各部委、中央机关里的干部子弟比较多。所以他下令把这些人全放了。放了以后我们还继续干。这批人都这个性格，没有说停下来的。后来就不行了，到了六七年底，又一次抓人，主要抓头头、领导，属于领袖级的人物，八十多人的名单全抓住了，就跑了我一个。我到处躲，到处藏，全国各地到处藏。实在没有地方躲了。他们工作效率还是蛮高的。我在一个地方才待两三天他们就追来了。最后我只好跑到乡下去。所以我上山下乡比毛泽东号召上山下乡早了好几个月。
记者：那时候你躲了多长时间？
魏京生：那时我干脆就办了上山下乡手续。我父亲说：你别回来了，有消息说公安部一直等着你的。我就说那算了，就办了上山下乡手续，算回乡知识青年。在乡下呆了两年，待到六九年。
记者：您父亲作为中共高官，对于您这种先进的民主思想，他怎么看待呢？是赞同，还是反对？
魏京生：他们那一代共产党人年轻的时候也都是搞民主，只不过走着走着，走到共产党这条路上，越陷越深。像我父亲这些老一代共产党，我九三年回去的时候感触很深。我见了许多叔叔阿姨，他们几乎全都对现状极端不满，骂共产党骂得那个难听啊，比我们骂得都难听。我们骂至少还不带脏字，他们骂起来很难听的。其实他们年轻的时候，也是为了让中国人民有好日子过，都知道中国需要民主需要自由，也是为了这个奋斗的。否则你想，过得好好的，像我父亲以前是大学教授，干吗要去参加共产党脑袋勒在裤腰带上闹革命？说不定哪天就死掉了。他们也是抱着一腔热血，为了中国老百姓。可是走上这条道，跟着毛泽东，越走越歪。老百姓过得这么苦，甚至还不如过去，不如国民党时期。那他们自己当然也有感触。回过头来看，他们也很不高兴。很多老干部级别很高，参加共产党很早，当面跟我说：“你是好孩子！”我九三年回去的时候他们对我说：“你干的这些事情，就是我们年轻时想干没干成的”。
实际上中国人追求民主，一代一代很多人。问题是在国民党和共产党两个党统治时期，都走上了斜路。不怪中国老百姓，不怪中国人不好。那么多人抛头颅洒热血的，不就是为了争取民主自由吗？可是最后都走到贪官污吏这条路上，这一点确实需要我们中国人仔细思考。
记者：那么您的父亲有没有亲自表扬过您？
魏京生：九八年（编辑注：是2000年）他出来看我的时候，那时候我已经在美国了。他表扬我说：“干得不错！”
记者：直到九八年才表扬啊？
魏京生：小时候以前从来没表扬过。我爸是个特严格的人。老派教师出身，很严格的人，很严肃，从来在家里都是“嗯嗯”地说话。
记者：但是您能从他的态度里感受到他的支持吧？
魏京生：其实一九七九年我进监牢之前，这些老共产党人也看得很清楚了。我碰到一些老共产党他们对我们民主墙很感兴趣。就是我刚才讲的。他们干了一辈子，绕了一大圈，
走了斜路，甚至很多人进了监狱。给共产党干了那么多事情，抛头颅洒热血的，都是很有名气，级别很高的，最后也是落到这么一个下场。所以他们那个时候对民主墙也很关心，至少对争取民主、自由、人权，他们都支持。因为他们年轻时候自己搞的就是这个。当然对我们的具体说法，他们有时觉得很紧张，有的人说你这个说法有点问题。有的人，像我父亲就说：你说的这些可能都是对的，但是你这么搞，很快你就要进监狱、掉脑袋，所以你最好不要搞了。
记者：担心你。
魏京生：是的，从这个角度出发，担心我。有些叔叔、阿姨也是这么劝的：你说的肯定都是对的，但你很快就要进监狱。当时大家都明白了，在共产党里，你不能说真话。说真话你就要进监狱。
记者：但他们还是喜欢听真话对不对？
魏京生：当然，谁心里都明白。像我父亲这个级别，可以看到内参。能看到比老百姓多得多的东西。但是他们还是喜欢听一些外台。但是他们不赞成儿女听外台。儿女听他们就警告。可是他们自己听，因为外台可以听到不同的声音。人都是这样，不管对的错的，我什么都听了，我自己做个判断才能知道什么是对的。如果只让听一点点东西，任何人都一样，都会有被骗的感觉。只能听到一种东西，那肯定不可靠。不管真的假的，给人的感觉就不可靠。其实很多共产党的干部和老百姓一样，也都在所谓“偷听敌台”。
九三年回去时我父亲就说，有几个台他必听。九八年（编者注：应为2000年）他来看我的时候，说每天必听四个台，一个是美国之音，一个是自由亚洲，一个是BBC，一个是法广。这四个台必听。我弟弟妹妹回家来，他还讲，哪个台说了什么，哪个台说了什么。我父亲记忆力非常好。
记者：四个台都听，一天很忙啊。
魏京生：他退休老头，一天没什么事。我一进监狱，人家马上让他退休了。那时他事业正在蒸蒸日上，江泽民还在他办公室里协助工作，学习呢。那正是他第二次事业上升的时候。第一次是50年以前，49年前后那段时间。后来他就受打击下来了。
记者：那他没有埋怨您？
魏京生：没有。我们家人都没有埋怨过我，都理解我干的事。不光我父亲，还有我弟弟妹妹，包括我妹夫。我妹夫当时签证都办好了，要去英国做中国造船工业在英国的代表，就差三天上飞机，临时被取消了。一辈子的事业到此为止，因为他是学技术的。像我们这样的人，不仅仅是我们做出了牺牲，家里人，兄弟姐妹，父母，子女，都受到很大的影响，受到共产党的迫害。代价是全家人付出的。
记者：他们还是一如既往地支持您。
魏京生：对。自己家人嘛。他们也能理解我。我做的事情，是好事，又不是坏事。
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魏京生基金会及中国民主运动海外联席会议以推动中国的人权与民主为己任。
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