Wei Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A980-W632

魏京生基金会新闻与文章发布号：A980-W632

Release Date: January 7, 2017

发布日：2017年1月7日

Topic: Exclusive Interview with Wei Jingsheng: Under the Rule of Donald Trump, Will the US-China Relationship Change? (Voice of America "Issues and Opinions" Program)

标题：专访魏京生：川普治下，美中关系是否改弦易辙？(美国之音“时事大家谈”节目)

Original Language Version: Chinese (Chinese version at the end)

此号以中文为准（英文在前，中文在后）

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Editor's note: the following is the VOA introduction of its "Issues and Opinions" talk show on December 22, 2016, featuring its invited special guest: Wei Jingsheng.

Exclusive Interview with Wei Jingsheng: Under the Rule of Donald Trump, Will the US-China Relationship Change?

2016.12.22 22:52

-- Hosted by Paris Huang of VOA

Washington, DC --

Since Donald Trump was elected as the President of the United States, he has already triggered tension in the US-China relations even though he has not yet taken office, from the "Trump-Tsai Hotline" with Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen to his accusation of China on Twitter by challenging the one-China policy and possibly having a trade conflict with China. In addition to the angry response of the Chinese officials and the official Chinese media, Chinese ships also robbed an underwater drone of the US military. Last Wednesday this week, China even made Taiwan lose another diplomatic tie with a country.

Wei Jingsheng, the chairman of the Overseas Chinese Democracy Coalition, said that for any president in the United States, the United States has a responsibility to act as long as Taiwan is under threat. The "Taiwan Relations Act" has clearly stated this intent. For the Trump administration, an important task is to adjust the relationship of the United States with Taiwan and China, especially the trade relations with China.

Wei Jingsheng said that the United States could offer little help for Taiwan to join international organizations, because these organizations respect the autonomy of each country and it is not suitable for the United States to intervene. Regarding China taking away one more country's diplomatic relationship with Taiwan, that can be interpreted the Chinese government's punishment of the Taiwan government, as well as a warning to the Trump administration after the phone talk between Trump and Tsai. Wei Jingsheng thinks that Taiwan does not need to be too concerned of its diplomatic relationships with small countries. He said that now that the economy in Mainland China has developed, it lets Taiwan keep diplomatic relationships with those twenty some countries only to use it for punishing Taiwan in the future. He said that many developed countries, such as the United States and Japan, have substantial exchanges with Taiwan and Taiwan needs not to be too concerned with "nominal" issues.

Wei Jingsheng said that the Tsai Ing-wen administration will not keep a distance with Trump due to this matter. Taiwan's security is largely supported by the United States. Maintaining the peace of both sides across the Taiwan Strait by the United States will be continued in the future. However, this issue may become a fuss by the opposition party in Taiwan in the future, which is a normal phenomenon in a democratic society.

Wei Jingsheng said that when Donald Trump called Tsai Ing-wen as the "President", he only spoke of the "reality" for more than a decade. Taiwan as a political entity that maintains "quasi-diplomatic relations" with the United States is a fact. Wei Jingsheng thinks that Taiwan has long been an independent political entity, and that it is not necessary to be too entangled with the issue in the name of a country.

After Tsai Ing-wen 's call to Donald Trump, the voice of Taiwan independence within Taiwan rose. Wei Jingsheng said that the phone communication between Tsai and Trump is only the beginning for Trump to start "playing" his cards with China. Other cards include the economy, Diaoyu Islands, the South China Sea, Tibet, Mongolia, Hong Kong independence, etc. in the hand of Donald Trump are lining up in dealing with China.

VOA Chinese Issues and Opinions program Youtube direct broadcasting viewer Jiao Einstein asked: "The Chinese Communist Party is good at making diplomatic relations with its business orders. So if it gives a few big orders to Donald Trump, will it be assured that Trump will not talk about democracy and human rights problems in China and will no longer support Taiwan? As the United States no longer wants to act as a world police, how will the overseas democracy movement continue to operate and help boost the democratic movement in Mainland China? "

Some activists also pointed out that in order to trade with China, from Bill Clinton, George W. Bush to the Obama administration, they all mainly cared about business instead of the issue of "democracy, freedom and human rights" in China, considered only as a politically correctness matter just like "a young monk chanting Buddhism scripts without sincerity to truly understand them from his own heart". During the tweets by Donald Trump in defense of his call with Tsai Ing-wen, he only mentioned that Taiwan was buying weapons from the United States, instead of saying that Taiwan was a democracy; and what was wrong to talk with a president that was democratically elected? Is it possible that after Trump is inaugurated, human rights issues may also become politically correctness as well, for talking about only? Wei Jingsheng believes that the people of the United States enjoy freedom, democracy and human rights, so these people will force Trump to put pressure on China's human rights issues.

Wei Jingsheng said that the Obama administration did not deal with the Philippines issue well. As a small country, the Philippines naturally dares not to have a military confrontation with China. In this case, the Philippines needed to adjust its foreign policy in a substantial reform as a "new president" comes into office. The Philippines is trying to strike a balance between China and the United States, rather than taking one side with China.

Wei Jingsheng said that the Chinese ship robbing the underwater drone of the US military is a "moderate provocation" against the United States. This is the Xi Jinping government trying to test the bottom line during the power vacuum period as Obama is about to step down while Trump has yet come to power.

Mr. Huang from Guangdong, asked if Taiwan has no "nominal" state of diplomatic relations, how can it be "justifiable"? Wei Jingsheng responded that Taiwan has actual diplomatic ties with many developed countries, and there is no such problem as no countries with so-called "diplomatic relations". Taiwan does not need to value too much the nominal name, but can learn from the Communist regime years ago, when even though it did not have many official diplomatic relations, it still did its own thing in the way it should be done.

Wei Jingsheng said that Xi Jinping would threaten Taiwan with force, but in the near future there is no possibility of attacking Taiwan, because the United States cannot but intervene, especially as Donald Trump takes a tough policy toward China. China knows its military cannot beat the United States, so it will not rush to initiate this conflict.

Wei Jingsheng said that there is no so-called "universal suffrage" in the United States, so it does not make sense to look at popular votes. "Electoral votes" is the key point. The "Electoral College System" in the United States was designed by its Founding Fathers to cater to the rights and interests of the small states with less population. The election of electors in the United States is the election of ordinary people. Yet, half of the electoral committees in Hong Kong are appointed by Chinese government, so naturally the elected chief executive of Hong Kong will be the candidate of the Chinese Communist Party. Therefore, the people of Hong Kong are fighting for "universal suffrage", which is a totally different case to be compared with the elections in the USA.

Wei Jingsheng said that the Communist Party has often used "the one China policy has been recognized around the world" as a propaganda trick. In fact, the Shanghai Communiqué only states that it "acknowledged" that all Chinese (of the Chiang Kai-shek's government and the Mao Zedong government) on both sides of the Taiwan Strait all had their respective "one China" position, and it respects that and "does not challenge that". Now as one of the two sides of the strait no longer agrees with the so-called "one China", this position will be respected as well. Wei Jingsheng said: "The reality is that there are two governments, or you could say there are two countries. Taiwan is a political entity, and it is impossible to use force to destroy it."

Wei Jingsheng said that China has been putting pressure on US companies, to tighten foreign companies, but this is only a scary approach against the USA by Xi Jinping's government. In the hands of the United States is the "market." So if a trade war really started, the collapsed will be Xi Jinping's government, so the Chinese Communist regime will not act rashly.

Original link of this VOA report:

http://www.voachinese.com/a/io-20161222/3646672.html

VOA video:

http://www.voachinese.com/a/io20161222/3646627.html

This video is also available at:

http://www.weijingsheng.org/interviews/interviews2016/WeiJSonChinaUSrelationship161222VOAtalkshow.mp4

And on Youtube:

https://youtu.be/nXC63VFTFeI

Or:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L329U8vCXdo

Related audio:

http://www.weijingsheng.org/interviews/interviews2016/WeiJSonChinaUSrelationship161222VOAtalkshow.mp3

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中文版

Wei Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A980-W632

魏京生基金会新闻与文章发布号：A980-W632

Release Date: January 7, 2017

发布日：2017年1月7日

Topic: Exclusive Interview with Wei Jingsheng: Under the Rule of Donald Trump, Will the US-China Relationship Change? (Voice of America "Issues and Opinions" Program)

标题：专访魏京生：川普治下，美中关系是否改弦易辙？(美国之音“时事大家谈”节目)

Original Language Version: Chinese (Chinese version at the end)

此号以中文为准（英文在前，中文在后）

如有中文乱码问题，请与我们联系或访问：

http://www.weijingsheng.org/report/report2017/report2017-01/WeiJSonChinaUSrelationship170107VOAtalkshowA980-W632.htm

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(编者按：以下为2016年12月22日美国之音“时事大家谈”主持人黄耀毅采访魏京生先生的节目介绍。)

美国之音时事大家谈：专访魏京生：川普治下，美中关系是否改弦易辙？

2016.12.22 22:52

-- 美国之音黄耀毅主持

华盛顿 -

川普当选美国总统之后，还未上任就已经引发美中关系紧张--从与台湾总统蔡英文通话的"川蔡热线"，到推特上指责中国，挑战一中政策，并可能与中国发生贸易冲突。中国除了官员与官媒相继反击，中国船只也劫走美军的探测潜航器，本周三更令台湾失去一个邦交国。

中国民主运动海外联席会议主席魏京生说，对美国任何一位总统而言，只要台湾受到了威胁，美国就有责任做出行动。这点"台湾关系法"已经清楚写明。而川普政府的重要任务，就是调整美国与台湾和中国的关系，尤其是与中国的贸易关系。

魏京生说，在帮助台湾加入国际组织这方面，美国能给予的帮助不大，因为这些组织尊重每个国家的自主权，美国不宜插手干涉。中国拿走台湾的邦交国，可以视为川蔡通话后，中国对台湾政府的惩罚，以及对川普政府的警告。魏京生认为台湾不需要把一丁点大的邦交小国太当一回事。他说，大陆现在经济发达了，让台湾留着20多个邦交国，只是为了日后惩罚台湾用。他说，许多发达国家，如美国和日本等，都和台湾有实质上的往来，台湾不需要太过在意"名义上"的问题。

魏京生说，蔡英文政府不会因为这件事与川普保持距离。台湾的安全很大部分是靠美国支撑，由美国维持两岸的和平，未来也会延续下去。不过这个议题未来可能被台湾的反对党拿来作文章，这在民主社会是正常现象。

魏京生说，川普称呼蔡英文为"总统"，只是道出了十几年来的"现实"。台湾作为一个与美国保持"准外交关系"的政治实体是事实。魏京生认为台湾早已经是一个独立的政治实体，不需要为了国号的问题太过纠结。

川蔡通话之后，台湾内部的台独声音高涨。魏京生表示，川蔡通话只是川普预示将对中国"出牌"的开端，川普手中还有经济牌，钓鱼岛，南中国海，西藏牌，蒙古牌，港独牌等在手中，等着向中国出招。

美国之音时事大家谈YouTube直播网友焦爱因斯坦问："中共善于用订单搞定外交关系。给川普几个大单，能否搞定他不再指责中国民主人权，不再支持台湾？面对美国不再想充当世界警察，海外民运如何继续运作，为中国大陆民主运动助推发力?"

也有活动人士指出，为了与中国贸易，从克林顿，小布什到奥巴马政府，对于中国的"民主自由人权"议题，都只是政治正确，如小和尚念经有口无心，还是以作生意为主。川普在捍卫自己与蔡英文通话的推当中，只提到台湾向美国买武器，却不是说台湾是个民主政体，跟民主选出的总统通话有何不对。是否可能川普执政之后，人权议题也可能成为政治正确，说说而已? 魏京生认为，美国人民享有自由民主人权，所以人民会逼迫川普，对中国的人权问题施压。

魏京生说，奥巴马政府没有处理好菲律宾的问题。菲律宾作为一个小国，自然不敢与中国有军事上的对抗。在这个情况下，菲律宾需要调整外交政策，刚好借由"换总统"进行大幅的改革。菲律宾其实是试图在中美两国之间取得平衡，而不是一面倒向中国。

魏京生说，中国船只劫走美军探测潜航器，是对美国"温和地挑衅"。这是习近平政府趁奥巴马即将下台，而川普尚未上台的空窗期所作出的试探底线的行为。

广东听众黄先生提问，如果台湾完全没有"名义上"的邦交国，那怎么会是"名正言顺"呢？魏京生回应，台湾实际上与许多发达国家有邦交，不存在所谓"没有邦交国"的问题。台湾不需要把正式的名义看得太重，这一点可以学学当年的共产党，虽然没有太多正式的邦交国，但照样理直气壮地做自己该做的事。

魏京生说，习近平会以武力威胁台湾，但近期内不存在攻打台湾的可能性，因为美国对此不可能不插手，川普对中国又采取强硬的政策。中国自知军事上打不过美国，故不会贸然动手。

魏京生说，美国不存在所谓"普选"，因此看选民票是没有意义的，"选举人票"才是重点。美国的"选举人团制度"是开国先贤有意设计的，目的是能照顾到人口较少的小州权益。美国的选举人票是老百姓选出来的，而香港的"选委"有一半是中国任命的，选出来的特首自然是中共属意的人选，所以香港人在争取真普选，这两者完全无法相提并论。

魏京生表示，共产党时常以"一中政策得到了全世界承认"作为宣传的伎俩。实际上当年上海公报仅表示，"注意到"蒋介石与毛泽东政府在两岸各自的"一个中国"立场，并对此予以尊重。如今两岸其中一方不再认同所谓"一个中国"，这样的立场也会得到尊重。魏京生说："现实就是有两个政府，你说两个国家也好。那是一个政治实体，你要用武力去消灭它，这是不可能的。"

魏京生说，中国一直在对美国企业施加压力、收紧外企，但这只是习近平政府吓唬美国的手法。美国手中掌握了"市场"，要是真打起贸易战，垮台的将是习近平政府，因此中共不会贸然行动。

报道的原始链接：

http://www.voachinese.com/a/io-20161222/3646672.html

节目实况录像：

http://www.voachinese.com/a/io20161222/3646627.html

也可在以下魏京生基金会的网页观看相关录像：

http://www.weijingsheng.org/interviews/interviews2016/WeiJSonChinaUSrelationship161222VOAtalkshow.mp4

Youtube上的录像：

https://youtu.be/nXC63VFTFeI

及：

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L329U8vCXdo