Wei Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A1228-W848

魏京生基金会新闻与文章发布号：A1228-W848

Release Date: July 23, 2019

发布日：2019年7月23日

Topic: About the "Underworld" System of the CCP From the "Men Dressed in White" in Hong Kong （Wei Jingsheng’s Interview in a Radio Free Asia Report）

标题：从香港"白衣人"谈到中共的"黑社会"体制 -- 自由亚洲电台采访魏京生与何频

Original Language Version: Chinese (Chinese version at the end)

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About the "Underworld" System of the CCP From the "Men Dressed in White" in Hong Kong

-- Wang Yun, Radio Free Asia

2019-07-22

During the July 21 protest in Hong Kong, a group of "Men Dressed in White " attacked and wounded many protesters at the Yuen Long subway station. Some commentators believe that these men dressed in white have an underground background and associate them with the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) system which has the characteristics of the "underworld". Wang Yun, a reporter of Radio Free Asia, invited Wei Jingsheng, representing the Chinese democracy movement, and He Pin, president of the Mirror Group in New York, to discuss this issue.

Reporter: During the demonstrations in Hong Kong yesterday, there was a phenomenon of so-called "Men Dressed in White" (the Underworld people) chasing the civilians. The public opinion quickly turned on the CCP. Mr. He, why do you think public opinion has such an orientation?

He Pin: From the videos and photos we have now, these attacks were obvious very organized.

Speaking of Hong Kong's "Underworld", before the handover of Hong Kong's sovereignty in 1997, Tao Siju, the CCP's Minister of Public Security, had extensive exchanges with the underground in Hong Kong and even said: "The underworld is also patriotic." That is to say that the underworld had also participated in the protection work of the CCP leaders while they visited. In this case, the underworld in Hong Kong has become part of the vested interests of the CCP. The underworld also feels that it has a protective shell because it is related to the Chinese government.

Reporter: When you talk about the videos and photos on the spot, can you judge them as from the underground only relying on these photos ?

He Pin: They may also be local residents. Hong Kong is divided into three parts, with one called the New Territories, home to a group of original farmers. They maintain very traditional living customs and structure of property. After the handover of Hong Kong's sovereignty in 1997, the Hong Kong government gave these aborigines in Yuen Long some special rights with the consent of the government in Beijing. After obtaining these privileges, their subjective consciousness is on the side of the Chinese government. Therefore, the students and civilians who marched and demonstrated in Yuen Long caused a rebound in the local aborigines.

Reporter: At present, we have not found solid evidence of whether these "Men Dressed in White" are underworld in Hong Kong or not. However, some public opinion believes that the CCP has a long-term cooperative relationship with the underworld there. Mr. Wei, what is your opinion?

Wei Jingsheng: Since the 1990s, it has been very common for the CCP to control the underworld. When Bo Xilai started to hit the underworld (in Chongqing), even his executive deputy director of the Municipal Public Security Bureau was the backbone of the underworld there. Everyone may already know that the CCP's officials, police officers, etc. use the underworld to conduct operations such as extortion, including the elimination of their opponents.

The same is true of Hong Kong. To be honest, the interests of the underworld in Hong Kong are largely related to Mainland China, especially in Guangdong and Shenzhen. In fact, even in the very early days, their drugs, prostitution and other businesses were controlled by the police in the Mainland. Therefore, they must make compromises with the Mainland police to help them to do things that are wicked and lack of morals.

Reporter: The public opinion this time has some people believing that the Chinese Communist Party itself has the characteristics of an underworld in its organization. Mr. He, what is your opinion?

He Pin: This is of course the case. I had commented before of the current anti-smuggling and combat-underworld activities carried out on the Mainland in fact is to strike the police themselves, because besides police, who could be arrogant and do whatever they want in the local areas? Now there are so many police in that system, and the profits are huge. In fact, the local police have long been the gang of the underworld.

Regarding Hong Kong, the current videos and photos show that the police have a certain relationship with these "Men Dressed in White". Therefore, the general public opinion in Hong Kong now basically believes that this time even if the underworld does not have a direct relationship with Beijing, it does have an inextricable relationship with the local pro-Communists and pro-Beijing camp. The connection with the underworld has made Chief Executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor and the Hong Kong government even more embarrassed because they are even less able to elude this responsibility.

Reporter: Mr. He has mainly explained the relationship between the police and the underworld. May I ask Mr. Wei, does the Chinese Communist Party have the characteristics of an underworld from its organization?

Wei Jingsheng: The organizational principles of the Chinese Communist Party are similar to those of the underworld. Also, as a dictatorial political party, it will certainly become an underground, as when some things are not suitable to be open to the public, it will do so secretly.

Reporter: What do you mean by "become an underworld"?

Wei Jingsheng: It means that this regime must use the underworld to do things outside the law, not only by its police, but also by some officials. It is already the norm that the various factions of the CCP are controlling some part of the underworld or using some of the underworld.

This is not exactly the same as the early days of the CCP. In its early days, the CCP was only organized in the way of an underground, which is the law of the CCP as it is now. But this law of the CCP is beyond the law of the country, so now it is easy for it to conduct its double regulated "Shuanggui" of "an appointed time and place" at its wish which is beyond the law. And it is done in an imposing manner.

The use of the underworld by the Chinese Communist regime is a matter of great concern, especially in Hong Kong. Because if the Communist regime uses the military in Hong Kong, there will be great diplomatic pressure. On the premise that the military cannot be used, it uses the underworld to intimidate and suppress the people. The CCP would say that it does not know. It can be totally removed from the responsibility. Of course, we don't have very hard evidence now, unless we catch those "Men Dressed in White".

(Reporter: Wang Yun; Editor: Wu Jing; Internet Editor: Rui Zhe)

Related report:

https://www.rfa.org/mandarin/yataibaodao/gangtai/wy-07222019110604.html

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中文版

Wei Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A1228-W848

魏京生基金会新闻与文章发布号：A1228-W848

Release Date: July 23, 2019

发布日：2019年7月23日

Topic: Topic: About the "Underworld" System of the CCP From the "Men Dressed in White" in Hong Kong （Wei Jingsheng’s Interview in a Radio Free Asia Report）

标题：从香港"白衣人"谈到中共的"黑社会"体制 -- 自由亚洲电台采访魏京生与何频

Original Language Version: Chinese (Chinese version at the end)

此号以中文为准（英文在前，中文在后）

如有中文乱码问题，请与我们联系或访问：

http://www.weijingsheng.org/report/report2019/report2019-07/WeiJSonHongKong190723RFAinterviewA1228-W848.htm

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从香港"白衣人"谈到中共的"黑社会"体制

-- 自由亚洲电台王允报道

2019-07-22

在香港721大游行中，一群"白衣人"袭击并打伤了不少在元朗地铁站的游行民众。有评论认为这些白衣人具有黑社会背景，更把他们与具有"黑社会"特征的中共体制相联系。本台记者王允邀请中国民主运动的代表人物魏京生与美国纽约明镜集团总裁何频，对这个问题进行了探讨。

记者：在昨天香港的游行示威过程中，出现了有所谓"白衣人"（黑社会）追打市民的现象，舆论对此的评论很快牵涉到了中共。何先生，您认为舆论为什么有这样的导向？

何频：从我们现在有的视频和照片，这些都是很明显的有组织的行为。

说到香港"黑社会"，在1997年香港回归之前，中共为了顺利过渡主权，当时的公安部部长陶驷驹就与香港黑社会进行了广泛的交往，甚至讲出了一句话，"黑社会也是爱国的"。就是说，中共领导人出访，黑社会还参与保护工作。这种情况下，黑社会就成了中共既得利益集团的一部分。而黑社会也因为与中国政府有关联，而感觉到自身有保护壳。

记者：您说到现场的视频和照片，如果仅凭这些来判断，他们就一定是黑社会吗？

何频：也有可能是当地的居民。香港是分三部分，有一部分叫新界，这个地方生活着一批原生态的农民。他们保持了非常传统的生活习俗，和他们的产权结构。到1997年香港主权回归以后，香港政府在得到北京政府同意的情况下，也给了元朗原住民一些特别的权利。他们在获得这些特权以后，在主观意识上就站在中国政府这一边。所以，那些游行示威的学生和市民跑到元朗那边，就引起当地原住民的反弹。

记者：目前关于"白衣人"是否是黑社会，我们还没有找到确实的证据。但有舆论认为，中共与黑社会有长期的合作关系。魏先生，您的看法是什么？

魏京生：中共控制黑社会，从90年代以来，就非常普遍了。当初，薄熙来（在重庆）打黑的时候，连这个市公安局的常务副局长都是黑社会的后台。中共的这些官员、警察等利用黑社会来进行敲诈勒索等作业，包括消灭他们的对手，这些大家可能都已经知道了。

香港同样如此。说实话，香港黑社会的利益很大程度上与大陆有关，尤其是跟广东、深圳等地。实际上很早，他们的毒品、卖淫等生意，都是被大陆警方控制着。所以，他们必须向大陆警方作出妥协，帮警方干一些缺德的事情。

记者：在这一次的舆论中，还有人认为，中国共产党在组织上就具有黑社会的特点。何先生，您的看法是什么？

何频：这当然是如此的。目前在大陆进行的扫黑活动，打击黑社会等，我之前就评论过，实际上打击的就是警察自己，因为在地方上能耀武扬威、胡作非为的，除了警察，还有谁吗？现在警察系统人数那么多，获利之丰厚，实际上地方上的警察早就是黑社会的帮派了。

说回香港的情况，目前的视频和照片就显示出，警察跟白衣人是有一定关系的。所以，现在香港舆论界基本上认为，这一次的黑社会即使是跟北京没有直接的关系，也跟当地的亲共分子和建制派具有完全无法摆脱的关系。跟黑社会的关联，使得林郑月娥和特区政府显得更加难堪，因为他们就更加不能洗脱这种责任了。

记者：何先生主要是从警察和黑社会的关系来解释的。请问魏先生，中国共产党从组织上是否具有黑社会的特点呢？

魏京生：中国共产党的组织原则看起来就跟黑社会差不多。而且它作为一个独裁的党，一定会黑社会化。因为有些事情不便公开做的，它就暗中去做。

记者：您所说的黑社会化，具体是指什么？

魏京生：就是说这个政权，不仅是警方，也包括一些官员，都要利用黑社会，在法律之外去做事情。共产党的各个派系都在控制一部分黑社会，或者利用一部分黑社会，这已经成为一种常态了。

这跟早期的情况还不完全一样。早期，它（共产党）只是组织具有黑社会化，就像现在，它有它的党法。法律之外，党还有一个法律。动不动就把你双规了，这都是在法律之外的事情，而且它是在堂而皇之地做。

他们（共产党）利用黑社会是非常值得关注的一件事情，尤其是在香港。在香港，它若想动用军队，就会有很大的外交压力。在不能动用军队的前提下，它就动用黑社会来进行恐吓，压制老百姓，它可以说它不知道。它可以把责任推得干干净净。当然，现在我们没有很硬的证据，除非把那几个白衣人抓住。

(记者：王允编辑：吴晶网编：瑞哲)