Wei Jingsheng Foundation
News and Article: A1357-W969
魏京生基金会新闻与文章发布号：A1357-W969
Release Date: February 3,
2021
发布日：2021年2月3日
Topic: The Path to
Democratization Begins by Informing the People -- An Interview with Wei
Jingsheng by The Liberty Magazine in Japan
标题：民主化之路始于让人民知情
-- 日本《自由》杂志专访魏京生
Original Language
Version: Chinese (Chinese version at the end)
此号以中文为准（英文在前，中文在后）
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The Path to
Democratization Begins by Informing the People
-- An Interview with Wei
Jingsheng by The Liberty magazine in Japan
February 3, 2021
An Interview with Wei Jingsheng:
The Path to Democratization Begins by Informing the People
Wei Jingsheng / Leader of Democracy Wall in China in 1978
Wei Jingsheng was born in Beijing in 1950. He was the leading figure of
the Democracy Wall Movement in 1978. He has been imprisoned twice, spending a
total of 18 years in prison. Jingsheng was still in prison at the time of his
Sakharov Prize award. He is known as a democratic fighter along with Wang Dan
and others, as they have become symbols of China’s pro-democracy movement.
After being exiled to the U.S., he has continued to engage in China’s democracy
movement at home and abroad.
(Interviewer: Wang Wei Chih)
Will China democratize? If so, what paths could lead to China’s
democratization? We spoke with the leader of China’s pro-democracy movement.
–You were the leader of
the Beijing Spring, which could also be said as the revolution of wall papers.
Please tell us about that time.
Jingsheng: The Chinese
Communist Party (CCP) was using violent means to rule its people. From late
1978 to early 1979, there were indications that the CCP wanted to change from
within, and I thought that this opportunity shall not be missed.
Amid the Democracy Wall
Movement in which democratic wall posters were put up in Beijing, I criticized
the CCP’s 30-year dictatorship and put up a wall poster titled ‘The Fifth
Modernization –Democracy.’
–As a result, you were
imprisoned for a total of 18 years for engaging in counterrevolutionary
activities. During those periods in prison, why did you not lose your will to
fight?
Jingsheng: The CCP’s
methods are despicable, and they have caused psychological damage to my family
and relatives through violence. There is a saying in China, however: ‘Broad and
selfless heart, broad heaven (If one is selfless in their heart, the world is
wide).’ When I looked back at myself, I could confirm that I didn’t have any
selfishness, so my unshakeable mind kept me from ever giving in to external
pressure.
The Communist Party Regime Conceals All Kinds of Truths
–What is necessary for
democratization?
Jingsheng: A
prerequisite is for people to know the truth. When you are in contact with the
truth, you can make right decisions.
I believe the
international community should pay more attention to the issue of free speech
in China. If people are instigated by incorrect information that incites
nationalism, the government will be able to carry out wolf warrior diplomacy.
This is dangerous.
The current state of
free speech in China couldn’t be any more miserable. As a recent example, a
female citizen journalist and former lawyer, Zhang Zhan, shot some videos about
the coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan and posted them online. She was sentenced to
four years in prison for disrupting public order. This is clearly a crackdown
on freedom of speech and freedom of expression.
Discontent is emerging
not only from the cultural and scientific circles but also from within the CCP.
When their discontent reaches a certain threshold, it can explode like a
pressure cooker.
–Regarding COVID-19,
China insists that the virus originated naturally, and this theory is being
spread around the world
Jingsheng: The vast
majority of Chinese people know the ins and outs of the CCP, so we believe that
the coronavirus was secretly developed as a biological weapon by the CCP and
leaked in some way.
Shi Zhengli
of the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) argued that she ‘examined every corner
of the lab and didn’t find that the virus was leaked from here’ which
conversely proved that the virus was related to the WIV.
The CCP will use any
means to attain its goals, no matter how immoral the means may be. You could
say that the essence of the CCP was revealed through this COVID-19 pandemic.
The People and the Army Will Rise With Economic Collapse
–What kind of paths
could lead to the CCP’s collapse?
Jingsheng: There are two
possibilities. One is the emergence of rebels from within the CCP. The other is
a national rebellion. The main trigger of the latter will be the collapse of
the [Chinese] economy. China’s economy has developed due to the West’s investment
policy with China, but once the growth stops, the people will rise because they
cannot withstand the ‘Vampire Economy.’ At the same time, the military will
point its weapons toward the CCP. This will lead to the collapse of the
Communist regime.
–Please share your
expectations for Japan.
Jingsheng: You cannot
co-exist and co-prosper with the Communist regime. It is obvious that the CCP
will pose a global threat if they become stronger. While
anti-China sentiment is increasing in Japan, political and business spheres are
flattering China.
But the U.S. and the
international society became anti-Communist China. If Japan doesn’t keep pace
with them, China may invade neighboring countries. We believe that helping the
Chinese people to democratize will also benefit Japan. Even if there are large
political parties in Japan, small political parties will not be crushed. In
that sense, Japan is a model for party politics.
The Communist Party has
crushed many small parties since the 1950s. As it exists today, the CCP is an
eternal ruling party.
It has unfortunately
become a one-party dictatorship from the latter half of the 1950s.
A true election should
guarantee freedom of speech and basic human rights. This is how true elections
are supposed to run, but with the elections in China, the only elector is the
CCP. It has no meaning.
–What kind of changes
will the U.S. governmental policies face under the Biden administration?
Jingsheng: I doubt the
fundamental policies related to China will change. The U.S. is a democratic
society, so the opinions of voters must be reflected. Regarding China-related
policies, there is a lot of agreement between the Republican Party and the
Democratic Party. Even if Mr. Biden tries to take the pro-China route, I don’t
think the effort of the last four years can be easily reversed. Talking to
American congressmen, I feel that the anti-Communist China stance is pervasive
among members of Congress. The White House only enforces legislative policies.
–Taiwan is an important
ally for Japan. Please share your message for Taiwan.
Jingsheng: Firstly, the
Taiwanese government must denounce the CCP as an enemy and unite all of its people to face China. As small
of a country as Israel is united. This is the first requirement.
Next is to create
alliances.
Neither the Kuomintang
nor the Democratic Progressive Party of Taiwan should adopt pro-Communist China
policies. The CCP is its enemy, so it is important to unite domestically.
Taiwan must also take
interest in the Uighurs, Inner Mongolia and Tibet because the same policies
that were implemented with the Uighurs and Tibet will take place in Taiwan.
These issues are not just someone else’s problem.
There are also
anti-American lawmakers in Taiwan, so in the U.S., some Congress members
question whether Taiwanese lawmakers have political wisdom. Taiwan must have a
mind of its own rather than walk on eggshells around the CCP.
Link to the original
publication of this interview:
http://eng.the-liberty.com/2021/8194/
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中文版
Wei Jingsheng Foundation
News and Article: A1357-W969
魏京生基金会新闻与文章发布号：A1357-W969
Release Date: February
3, 2021
发布日：2021年2月3日
Topic: The Path to Democratization
Begins by Informing the People -- An Interview with Wei Jingsheng by The Liberty Magazine in Japan
标题：民主化之路始于让人民知情 -- 日本《自由》杂志专访魏京生
Original Language
Version: Chinese (Chinese version at the end)
此号以中文为准（英文在前，中文在后）
如有中文乱码问题，请与我们联系或访问：
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民主化之路始于让人民知情
-- 日本《自由》杂志专访魏京生
2021年2月3日
魏京生专访：
民主化之路始于让人民知情
魏京生/ 1978年中国民主墙领导人
魏京生1950年出生于北京。他是1978年民主墙运动的负责人。他被两次监禁，总共服刑18年。魏京生获得萨哈罗夫奖时仍在监狱里。他与王丹等人一起被称为民主战士，因为他们已成为中国民主运动的象征。被流放到美国后，他继续在国内外从事中国的民主运动。
（采访者：王为之）
中国会民主化吗？如果是这样，什么途径可以导致中国民主化？我们采访了中国民主运动的领导人。
–您是北京之春，也可以说是民主墙革命的领袖。请告诉我们那段时间的情况。
魏京生：中国共产党（CCP）一直使用暴力手段统治人民。从1978年末到1979年初，有中共想从内部改变的迹象，我认为这个机会不容错过。
在北京民主墙贴的大字报里，我批评了中共30年的独裁统治，并在民主墙上张贴了题为“第五个现代化–民主”的大字报。
–结果，您因从事反革命活动而被判入狱共18年。在监狱期间，您为什么没有失去战斗的意愿？
魏京生：中共的方法很卑鄙，它们通过暴力对我的家人和亲戚造成了心理伤害。然而，中国有一句俗语：“心阔天地宽。”当我回首时，我可以确认自己不是出于自私的目的，所以我坚定不移的思想使得我从不屈服于外部压力。
中共政权掩盖一切真相
–民主化必需的前提是什么？
景生：前提是人们要了解真相。接触到真相时，您可以做出正确的决定。
我相信国际社会应该更重视中国的言论自由问题。如果人们因煽动民族主义的不正确信息而受到鼓舞，政府就能进行狼战外交。这很危险。
现今中国缺乏言论自由的现状令人窒息。最近的一个例子是，一位女性公民记者和前律师张展拍摄了一些有关武汉冠状病毒爆发的视频，并将其发布到网上。她因扰乱公共秩序而被判处四年徒刑。这显然是对言论自由和表达自由的镇压。
不满情绪不仅出现在文化和科学界，也在中共内部出现。当不满达到某个阈值时，它会像高压锅一样爆炸。
–关于COVID-19，中国坚持声称该病毒是自然起源的，这一理论正在世界范围内传播。
魏京生：绝大多数中国人都知道中共的来龙去脉，所以我们相信冠状病毒是中共秘密开发的一种生物武器被以某种方式泄漏了。
武汉病毒学研究所（WIV）的石正丽声称她“检查了实验室的每个角落，没有发现该病毒是从这泄漏的”，这反过来证明该病毒与WIV有关。
中共将使用任何手段实现其目标，无论这种手段有多么不道德。您可以说，通过这次COVID-19大流行揭示了CCP的实质。
人民和军队将随着经济崩溃而起义
–什么样的道路可能导致中共垮台？
魏京生：有两种可能性。一是中共内部反叛人物的出现。另一个是国家级叛乱。后者的主要诱因将是[中国]经济的崩溃。由于西方对华的投资政策，中国的经济得以发展。但是一旦停止增长，人民就会起义，因为他们无法承受“吸血鬼式的经济”。与此同时，军方将把武器指向中共。这将导致中共政权的崩溃。
–请分享您对日本的期望。
魏京生：您不能与共产主义政权共存共荣。显然，如果中共变得更强大，它将对全球构成威胁。尽管日本的反华情绪在上升，其政治和商业却在给中国拍马屁。
但是美国和国际社会已开始反中共。如果日本不跟上他们的步伐，中国可能会入侵邻国。我们认为，帮助中国人民民主化也将使日本受益。尽管日本有大型政党，小型政党也不会被粉碎。从这个意义上讲，日本是政党政治的典范。
自1950年代以来，中共粉碎了许多小党派。中共今天是一个永恒的执政党。
不幸的是，自1950年代后半叶起，它就变成了一党专政。
一个真正的选举应保证言论自由和基本人权。真正的选举本应如此，但在中国的选举，唯一的选举人就是中共。所以毫无意义。
–拜登政府领导下的美国政府政策将面临什么样的变化？
魏京生：我怀疑与中国有关的基本政策会改变。美国是民主社会，因此必须反映选民的意见。关于中国的政策，共和党与民主党之间已经有很多共识。即使拜登先生尝试走亲中路线，我也不认为过去四年的努力可以轻易逆转。在与美国国会议员交谈时，我感到反中共立场在国会议员中普遍存在。白宫只执行立法政策。
- 台湾是日本的重要盟友。请分享您对台湾的看法。
魏京生：首先，台湾政府必须谴责中共为敌，并团结全体人民面对中国。像小国以色列那样团结起来。这是第一个要求。
接下来是建立联盟。
国民党和台湾民进党都不应采取亲中共政策。中共是它的敌人，所以在国内团结起来很重要。
台湾也应关心维吾尔、内蒙和西藏，因为与维吾尔族和西藏实施的同类政策将在台湾实行。这些问题不仅仅是别人的问题。
台湾也有反美议员，因此一些美国国会议员质疑台湾议员是否具有政治智慧。台湾必须有其自己的思想，而不是为了中共而走钢丝。
文章的原始链接：
http://eng.the-liberty.com/2021/8194/
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